My complaint is not that I have to change my code. WaxProlix on May 27, root parent next [—]. This scheme can easily be fitted on top of UTF instead. Man, what was the drive behind adding that extra complexity to life?! I created this scheme to help in using a formulaic method to generate a commonly used subset of the CJK characters, perhaps in the codepoints which would be 6 bytes under UTF It would be more difficult than the Hangul scheme because CJK characters are built recursively.
I guess you need some operations to get to those details if you need. Python however only gives you a Ùیلم ایرانی قدیمی سکس کردن امام جمعه همدان با زن جوان perspective. One of Python's greatest strengths is that they don't just pile on random features, and keeping old crufty features from previous versions would amount to the same thing.
That is held up with a very leaky abstraction and means that Python code that treats paths as unicode strings and not as paths-that-happen-to-be-unicode-but-really-arent is broken. Also note that you have to go through a normalization step anyway if you don't want to be tripped up by having multiple ways to represent a single grapheme. In fact, even people who have issues with the py3 way often agree that it's still better than 2's.
Though such negative-numbered codepoints could only be used for private use in data interchange between 3rd parties if the UTF was used, because neither UTF-8 even pre nor UTF could encode them.
On further thought I agree. The overhead is entirely wasted on code that does no character level operations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options Cesrate Posted April 19, Ùیلم ایرانی قدیمی سکس کردن امام جمعه همدان با زن جوان, Posted April 19, edited.
I have to disagree, I think using Unicode in Python 3 is currently easier than in any language I've used. The HTML5 spec formally defines consistent handling for many errors. So if you're working in either domain you get a coherent view, the problem being when you're interacting with systems or concepts which straddle the divide or even worse may be in either domain depending on the platform. Reply to this topic Start new topic.
Because in Unicode it is most decidedly bogus, even if you switch to UCS-4 in a vain attempt to avoid such problems. For code that does do some character level operations, avoiding quadratic behavior may pay off handsomely. Python 3 doesn't handle Unicode any better than Python 2, it just made it the default string. Unicode just isn't simple any way you slice it, so you might as well shove the complexity in everybody's face and have them confront it early.
Keeping a coherent, consistent model of your text is a pretty important part of curating a language. You could still open it as raw bytes if required.
That means if you slice or index into a unicode strings, you might get an "invalid" unicode string back. There is no coherent view at all.
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I know you have a policy of not reply to people so maybe someone else could step in and clear up my confusion. Calling a sports association "WTF"? In-memory string representation rarely corresponds to on-disk representation. Well, Python 3's unicode support is much more complete. Animats on May 28, parent next [—]. Not only because of the name itself but also by explaining the reason behind the choice, you achieved to get my attention.
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We don't even have 4 billion characters possible now. Python 3 pretends that paths can be represented as unicode strings on all OSes, that's not true. Michael Kim Posted April 19, Posted April 19, So bring it on guys! Stop there. Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2.
It certainly isn't perfect, but it's better than the alternatives. I'm using Python 3 in production for an internationalized website and my experience has been that it handles Unicode pretty well. Thanks for explaining. Byte strings can be sliced and Alyx jhony xx new no problems because a byte as such is something you may actually want to deal with.
DasIch on May 27, root parent prev next [—]. CUViper on May 27, root parent prev next [—]. SimonSapin on May 27, root parent prev next [—]. Completely trivial, Ùیلم ایرانی قدیمی سکس کردن امام جمعه همدان با زن جوان, obviously, but it demonstrates that there's a canonical way to map every value in Ruby to nil.
I'm not aware of anything in "Linux" that actually stores or operates on 4-byte character strings. I used strings to mean both.
I've taken the liberty in this scheme of making 16 planes 0x10 to 0x1F available as private use; the rest are unassigned. The primary motivator for this was Servo's DOM, although it ended up getting deployed first in Rust to deal with Windows paths. My complaint is that Python 3 is an attempt at breaking as little compatibilty with Python 2 as possible while making Unicode "easy" to use. NFG uses the negative numbers down to about -2 billion as a implementation-internal private use area to temporarily store graphemes.
That's just silly, Ùیلم ایرانی قدیمی سکس کردن امام جمعه همدان با زن جوان, so we've gone through this whole unicode everywhere process so we can stop thinking about the underlying implementation details but the api forces you to have to deal with them anyway.
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In all other aspects the situation has stayed as bad as it was in Python 2 or has gotten significantly worse. You can also index, slice and iterate over strings, all operations that you really shouldn't do unless you really now what you are doing.
Or is some of my above understanding incorrect. Good examples for that are paths and anything that relates to local IO when you're locale is C. Maybe this has been your experience, but it hasn't been mine. The caller should specify the encoding manually ideally. That was the piece I was missing.
Right, ok. There Python 2 is only "better" in that issues will probably fly under the radar if you don't prod things too much. We haven't determined whether we'll need to use WTF-8 throughout Servo—it may depend on how document. Python 2 handling of paths is not good because there is no good abstraction over different operating systems, treating them as byte strings is a sane lowest common denominator though.
Enables fast grapheme-based manipulation of strings in Perl 6. Nothing special happens to them v. That is a unicode string that cannot be encoded or rendered in any meaningful way. How much data do you have lying around that's UTF? Sure, more recently, Go and Rust have decided to go with UTF-8, but that's far from common, and it does have some drawbacks compared to the Perl6 NFG or Python3 latin-1, UCS-2, UCS-4 as appropriate model if you have to do actual processing instead of just passing opaque strings around.
There's some disagreement[1] about the direction that Python3 went in terms of handling unicode. Sure, go to Ùیلم ایرانی قدیمی سکس کردن امام جمعه همدان با زن جوان bits per character. I also gave a short talk at!! I certainly have spent very little time struggling with it.
That is not quite true, in the sense that more of the standard library has been made unicode-aware, and implicit conversions Ùیلم ایرانی قدیمی سکس کردن امام جمعه همدان با زن جوان unicode and bytestrings have been removed.
There's not a ton of local IO, but I've upgraded all my personal projects to Python 3. On top of that implicit coercions have been replaced with implicit broken guessing of encodings for example when opening files. Now we have a Python 3 that's incompatible to Python 2 but provides almost no significant benefit, solves none of the large well known problems and introduces quite a few new problems.
We've future proofed the architecture for Windows, Ùیلم ایرانی قدیمی سکس کردن امام جمعه همدان با زن جوان, but there is no direct work on it that I'm aware of. Fortunately it's not something I deal with often but thanks for the info, will stop me getting caught out later.
I get that every different thing character is a different Unicode number code point. Doesn't seem worth the overhead to my eyes.
What's your storage requirement that's not adequately solved by the existing encoding schemes? Guessing encodings when opening files is a problem precisely because - as you mentioned - the caller should specify the encoding, not just sometimes but always.
Veedrac on May 27, root parent prev next [—]. On the guessing encodings when opening files, that's not really a problem. DasIch on May 27, root parent next [—]. Most people aren't aware of that at all and it's definitely surprising. Oh ok it's intentional. Start doing that for serious errors such as Javascript code aborts, security errors, and malformed UTF Then extend that to pages where the character encoding is ambiguous, and stop trying to guess character encoding.
More importantly some codepoints merely modify others and cannot stand on their own. They failed to achieve both goals.
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Pretty good read if you have a few minutes. And I mean, I can't really think of any cross-locale requirements fulfilled by unicode. When a browser detects a major error, it should put an error bar across the top of the page, with something like "This page may display improperly due to errors in the page source click for details ". Have you looked at Python 3 yet?
In current browsers they'll happily pass around lone surrogates. So we're going to see this on web sites. Many people who prefer Python3's way of handling Unicode are aware of these arguments. What does the DOM do when it receives a surrogate half from Javascript? This is essentially the defining feature of nil, in a sense.
Most of the time however you certainly don't want to deal with codepoints, Ùیلم ایرانی قدیمی سکس کردن امام جمعه همدان با زن جوان. A character can consist of one or more codepoints. Perl6 calls this NFG [1]. Guessing an encoding based on the locale or the content of the file should be the exception and something the caller does explicitly. The multi code point thing feels like it's just an Ùیلم ایرانی قدیمی سکس کردن امام جمعه همدان با زن جوان detail in a different place.
Filesystem paths is the latter, it's text on OSX and Windows — although possibly ill-formed in Windows — but it's bag-o-bytes in most unices. DasIch on May 28, root Indian catoor jaqlin next [—]. If you use a bit scheme, you can dynamically assign multi-character extended grapheme clusters to unused code units to get a fixed-width encoding.
I feel like I am learning of these dragons all the time. Ah yes, the JavaScript solution. Thx for explaining the choice of the name.
Posted April 22, Cesrate Posted April 22, Posted April 24, Posted April 26, Cesrate Posted May 14, Posted May 14, Michael Kim Posted May 14, Cesrate Posted May 15, Posted May 15, Michael Ùیلم ایرانی قدیمی سکس کردن امام جمعه همدان با زن جوان Posted June 11, Posted June 11, Cesrate Posted June 18, Posted June 18, Cesrate Posted July 9, Posted July 9, Michael Kim Posted July 9, Cesrate Posted July 12, Posted July 12, Ùیلم ایرانی قدیمی سکس کردن امام جمعه همدان با زن جوان, Posted July 16, Michael Kim Posted July 24, Posted July 24, UTF, when implemented correctly, is actually significantly more complicated to get right than UTF I don't know anything that uses it in practice, though surely something does.
As a trivial example, case conversions now cover the whole unicode range. When you say "strings" are you referring to strings or bytes? Obviously some software somewhere must, but the overwhelming majority of text processing on your linux box is done in UTF That's not remotely comparable to the situation in Windows, where file names are stored on disk in a 16 bit not-quite-wide-character encoding, etc And it's leaked into firmware. I wonder what will be next?
This is an internal implementation detail, not to be used on the Web. Just define a somewhat sensible behavior for every input, no matter how ugly. So UTF is restricted to that range too, despite what 32 bits would allow, never mind Publicly available private use schemes such as ConScript are fast filling up this space, mainly by encoding block characters in the same way Unicode encodes Korean Hangul, i.
SimonSapin on May 27, prev next [—].
How is any of that in conflict with my original points? Slicing or indexing into unicode strings is a problem because it's not clear what unicode strings are strings of.
I almost like that utf and more so utf-8 break the "1 character, 1 glyph" rule, because it gets you in the mindset that this is bogus.
And unfortunately, I'm not anymore enlightened as to my misunderstanding. It's time for browsers to start saying no to really bad HTML. You can't use that for storage. Bytes still have methods like. It seems like those operations make sense in either case but I'm sure I'm missing something. Don't try to outguess new kinds of errors. The API in no way indicates that doing any of these things is a problem.
What do you make of NFG, as mentioned in another comment below? Why shouldn't you slice or index them? Oh, joy, Ùیلم ایرانی قدیمی سکس کردن امام جمعه همدان با زن جوان. If you don't know the encoding of the file, how 5.dick 1.pussy you decode it? I think you are missing the difference between codepoints as distinct from codeunits and characters.
Yes, that bug is the best place to start. SimonSapin on May 28, root parent next [—]. To dismiss this reasoning is extremely shortsighted. If I slice characters I expect a slice of characters. With typing the interest here would be more clear, of course, since it would be more apparent that nil Hijab metua endodin every type. You can look Rauter father unicode strings from different perspectives and see a sequence of codepoints or a sequence of characters, both can be reasonable depending on what you want to do.
Again: wide characters are a hugely flawed idea. NFG enables O N algorithms for character level operations. Not that great of a read. It slices by codepoints? I will try to find out more about this problem, because I guess that as a developer this might have some impact on my work sooner or later and therefore I should at least be aware of it.
It also has the advantage of breaking in less random ways than unicode. Your complaint, and the complaint of the OP, seems to be basically, "It's Ùیلم ایرانی قدیمی سکس کردن امام جمعه همدان با زن جوان and I have to change my code, therefore it's bad.
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Hey, never meant to imply otherwise. As the user of unicode I don't really care about that. That's OK, there's a spec. All that software is, broadly, incompatible and buggy and of questionable security when faced with new code points. It isn't a position based on ignorance.