I have to disagree, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده, I think using Unicode in Python 3 is currently easier than in شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده language I've used.
Your complaint, and the complaint of the OP, seems to be basically, "It's different and I have to change my code, therefore it's bad. And I mean, I can't really think of any cross-locale requirements fulfilled by unicode. Byte strings can be sliced and indexed no problems because a byte as such is something you may actually want to deal with.
That was the piece I was missing.
Why shouldn't you slice or index them? In fact, even people who have issues with the py3 way often agree that it's still better than 2's.
Veedrac on May 27, root parent prev next [—], شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده. Success Criteria 1. Bytes still have methods like. Most of the time however you certainly don't want to deal with codepoints. Pretty unrelated but I was thinking about efficiently encoding Unicode a week or two ago.
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Reply to this topic Insert image from URL. Go to topic listing. Slicing or indexing into unicode strings is a problem because it's not clear what unicode strings are strings of.
Hey, never meant to imply otherwise. Ah yes, the شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده solution, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده. As a trivial example, case conversions now cover the whole unicode range.
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Because not everyone gets Unicode right, real-world data may contain unpaired surrogates, and شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده is an extension of UTF-8 that handles such data gracefully. On the guessing encodings when opening files, that's not really a problem. This was presumably deemed simpler that only restricting pairs. Check Details, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده. Not that great of a read. How is any of that in conflict with my original points?
That is a unicode string that cannot be encoded or rendered in any meaningful way. Thanks for explaining. Python 2 handling of paths is not good because there is no good abstraction over different operating systems, treating them as byte strings is a sane lowest common denominator though.
Filesystem paths is the latter, it's text on OSX and Windows — although possibly ill-formed in Windows — but it's bag-o-bytes in most unices.
I know you have a policy of not reply شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده people so maybe someone else could step in and clear up my confusion, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده.
There is no coherent view at all. When you say "strings" are you referring to strings or bytes? That's just silly, so we've gone through this whole unicode everywhere process so we can stop thinking about the underlying implementation details but the api forces you to have to deal with them anyway.
It seems like those operations make sense in either case but I'm sure I'm missing something. To dismiss this reasoning is extremely shortsighted. It slices by codepoints? And unfortunately, I'm not anymore enlightened as to my misunderstanding. On top of that implicit coercions have been replaced with implicit broken guessing of encodings for example when opening files. That means if you slice or index into a unicode strings, you might get an "invalid" شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده string شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده. Or is some of my above understanding incorrect.
One of Python's greatest strengths is that they don't just pile on random features, and keeping old crufty features from previous versions would amount to the same thing. This was gibberish to me too. DasIch Roul sex May 27, root parent prev next [—]. Guessing an encoding based on the locale or the content of the file should be the exception and something the caller does explicitly. Why wouldn't this work, apart from already existing applications that does not know how to do this.
Error Unicode right-to-left marks or left-to-right marks may be required. Fortunately it's not something I deal with often but thanks for the info, will stop me getting caught out later.
Cesrate Posted July 12, Posted July 12, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده, Posted July 16, Michael Kim Posted July 24, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده, Posted July 24, Ac3Ali3n Posted July 30, Posted July 30, Posted August 20, edited. Man, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده, what was the drive behind adding that extra complexity to life?!
Pretty good read if you have a few minutes. The caller should specify the encoding manually ideally. They failed to achieve both goals. Right, ok. Every term is linked to its definition. As the user of unicode I don't really care about that. Join the conversation You can post now and register later, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده.
If I slice characters I expect a slice شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده characters. The multi code point thing feels like it's just an encoding detail in a different place. It also has the advantage of breaking in less random ways than unicode.
We would never run out of شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده, and lecagy applications can simple ignore codepoints it doesn't understand. Well, Python 3's unicode support is much more complete. I guess you need some operations to get to those details if you need, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده.
This may be necessary, for instance, when placing neutral characters such as spaces or punctuation between different directional text runs. DasIch on May 27, root parent next [—]. Most people aren't aware of that at all and it's definitely surprising.
If was to make a first attempt at a variable length, but well defined backwards compatible encoding scheme, I would use something like the number of bits upto and including the first 0 bit as defining the number of bytes used for this character.
Arabic character encoding problem
My complaint is not that شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده have to change my code. This is all gibberish to me. Guessing encodings when opening files is a problem precisely because - as you mentioned - the caller should specify the encoding, not just sometimes but always. Steps To Check Procedure 1. In all other aspects the situation has stayed as bad as شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده was in Python 2 or has gotten significantly worse. Sirine Posted November 16, Posted November 16, Michael Kim Posted November 28, Posted November 28, Posted December 1, This thread is quite old.
Python 3 pretends that paths can be represented as unicode strings on all OSes, that's not true. You could still open it as raw bytes if required. I get that every different thing character is a different Unicode number code point.
Python 3 doesn't handle Unicode any better than Python 2, it just made it the default string. DasIch on May 28, root parent next [—]. Therefore, the concept of Unicode scalar value was introduced and Unicode text was restricted to not contain any surrogate code Meless mahan 225. Short Description Use Unicode right-to-left marks and left-to-right marks to override the HTML bidirectional algorithm when it produces undesirable results, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده.
It certainly isn't perfect, but it's better than the alternatives. More importantly some codepoints merely modify others and cannot stand on their own. شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده API in no way indicates that doing any of these things is a problem. Many people who prefer Python3's شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده of handling Unicode are aware of these arguments. We would only waste 1 bit per byte, which seems reasonable given just how many problems encoding usually represent.
There's not a ton of local IO, but I've upgraded all my personal projects to Python 3. That is held up with a very leaky abstraction and means that Python code that treats paths as unicode strings and not as paths-that-happen-to-be-unicode-but-really-arent is broken. On further thought I agree. Keeping a coherent, consistent model of your text is a pretty important part of curating a language.
Simple compression can take care of the wastefulness of using excessive space to encode text - so it really only leaves efficiency. You can also index, slice and iterate over strings, all operations that you really shouldn't do unless you really now what you are doing. That is, you can jump to the middle of a stream and find the next code شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده by looking at no more than 4 bytes. So if you're working in either domain you get a coherent view, the problem being when you're interacting with systems or concepts which straddle the divide or even worse may be in either domain depending on the platform.
There's some disagreement[1] about the direction that Python3 went in terms of handling unicode. If you don't know the encoding of the file, how can you decode it? Codepoints and characters are not equivalent. That is not quite true, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده, in the sense that more of the standard library has been made unicode-aware, and implicit conversions between unicode and bytestrings have been removed.
I certainly have spent very little time struggling with it. My complaint is that Python 3 is an attempt at breaking as little compatibilty with Python 2 as possible while making Unicode "easy" to use. It isn't a position based on ignorance. I think you are missing the difference between codepoints as distinct from codeunits and characters, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده.
Python however only gives you a codepoint-level perspective. I understand that for efficiency we want this to be as fast شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده possible, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده. I used strings to mean both. SimonSapin on May 27, parent prev next [—]. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. There Python 2 is only "better" in that issues will probably fly under the radar if you don't prod things too much.
SimonSapin on May 27, Xnxx arani parent prev next [—].
Arabic character encoding problem
Now we have a Python 3 that's incompatible to Python 2 but provides almost no significant benefit, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده, solves none of the large well ABG colmk problems and introduces quite a few new problems. SimonSapin on May 28, parent next [—]. A character can consist of one or more codepoints. You can look at unicode strings from different perspectives and see a sequence of codepoints or a sequence of characters, both can be reasonable depending on what you want to do.
Can someone explain this in laymans terms? The numeric value of these code units denote codepoints that lie themselves within the BMP. Because we want our encoding schemes to be equivalent, شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده, the Unicode code space contains a hole شماره تلیÙÙ† جنده these so-called surrogates lie. People used to think 16 bits would be enough for anyone. Good examples for that are paths and anything that relates to local IO when you're locale is C.
Maybe this has been your experience, but it hasn't been mine.