DasIch on May 28, root parent next [—] I used strings to mean both.
The WTF-8 encoding | Hacker News
Some issues are more subtle: In principle, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره decision what should be considered a single character may depend on the language, nevermind the debate about Han unification - but as far as I'm concerned, that's a WONTFIX. PaulHoule on May 27, parent prev next [—]. Cancel Submit. And UTF-8 decoders will just turn invalid surrogates into the replacement character, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره.
The difficulty of resolving an instance of mojibake varies depending on the application within which it occurs and the causes of it. Veedrac on May 27, parent next [—]. I think you're just going to have to sit down and spend a lot of time 'decoding' what you're getting and create your own table.
I think you'd lose half of the already-minor benefits of fixed indexing, and there would be enough extra complexity to leave you worse off. That is the case where the UTF will actually end up being ill-formed. However, changing the system-wide encoding settings can also cause شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره in pre-existing applications. You can vote as helpful, but you cannot reply or subscribe to this thread. Not really true either. With شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره kind of mojibake more than one typically two characters are corrupted at once.
The encoding that was designed to be fixed-width is called UCS UTF is its variable-length successor. Sadly systems which had previously opted for fixed-width UCS2 and exposed that detail as part of a binary layer and wouldn't break compatibility couldn't keep their internal storage to 16 bit code units and move the external API to What they did instead was keep their API exposing 16 bits code units and declare it was UTF16, except most of them didn't bother validating anything so they're really exposing UCS2-with-surrogates not even surrogate pairs since they don't validate the data.
These two characters can be correctly encoded in Latin-2, Windows, and Unicode. And this isn't really lossy, since AFAIK the surrogate code points exist for the sole purpose of representing surrogate pairs. This way, even though the reader has to guess what the original letter is, almost all texts remain legible, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره. DasIch شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره May 27, root parent prev next [—] Python 3 doesn't handle Unicode any better than Python 2, it just made it the default string.
Failure to do this produced unreadable gibberish whose specific appearance varied depending on the exact combination of text encoding and font encoding. Then, it's possible to make mistakes when converting between representations, eg getting endianness wrong.
Dylan on May 27, parent prev next [—]. Want to bet that someone will cleverly decide that it's "just easier" to use it as an external encoding as well? UTF did not exist until Unicode 2. UCS-2 was the bit encoding that predated it, and UTF was designed as a replacement for UCS-2 in order to handle supplementary characters properly.
It has nothing to do with simplicity. Much older hardware is typically designed to support only one character set and the character set typically cannot be altered. Users of Central and Eastern European languages can also be affected. DasIch on May 28, root parent next [—] Codepoints and characters are not equivalent. There are no common translations for the vast amount of computer terminology originating in English, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره. Nearly all sites now use Unicode, but as of Novemberشيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره, [update] an estimated 0.
The nature of unicode is that there's always a problem you didn't but should know existed. TazeTSchnitzel on May 27, parent prev next [—]. UTF-8 has a native representation for African garnny code points that encodes each in 4 bytes.
The situation began to improve when, after pressure from academic and user groups, ISO succeeded as the "Internet standard" with limited support of the شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره vendors' software today largely replaced by Unicode.
I thought he was tackling the other problem which is that you frequently find web pages that have both UTF-8 codepoints and single bytes encoded as ISO-latin-1 or Windows This is a solution to a problem I didn't know existed. I updated the post. It might be removed for non-notability. If you نرخش Generalized UTF-8, except that you always want to use surrogate pairs for big code points, and you want to totally disallow the UTFnative 4-byte sequence for them, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره, you might like CESU-8, which does this.
The more interesting case here, which isn't mentioned at all, is that the input contains unpaired surrogate code points. Compatibility with UTF-8 systems, Xnx familystroke guess? For example, Microsoft Windows does not support it. I have the same شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره Report abuse.
You can divide strings appropriate to the use, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره. Two of the most common applications in which mojibake may occur are web browsers and word processors.
This kind of cat always gets out of the bag eventually. If you feel this is unjust and UTF-8 should be allowed to encode surrogate code points if it feels like it, then you might like Generalized UTF-8, which is exactly like UTF-8 except this is allowed.
In this case, the user must change the operating system's encoding settings to match that of the game. Having to interact with those systems from a UTF8-encoded world is an issue because شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره don't guarantee well-formed UTF, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره, they might contain Video xxxullu surrogates which can't be decoded to a codepoint allowed in UTF-8 or UTF neither allows unpaired surrogates, for obvious reasons.
See combining code points. ArmSCII is not widely used because of a lack of support in the computer industry. By the way, one thing that was slightly شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره to me in the doc.
That's certainly one important source of errors, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره. SiVal on May 28, parent prev next [—]. The character table contained within the display firmware will be localized to have characters for the country the device is to be sold in, and typically the table differs from country to country, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره.
Hacker شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره new past comments ask show jobs submit. The Windows encoding is important because the English versions of the Windows operating system are most widespread, not localized ones.
The distinction is that it was not considered "ill-formed" to encode those code points, and so it was perfectly legal to receive UCS-2 that encoded those values, process it, and re-transmit it as it's legal to process and retransmit text streams that represent characters unknown to the process; the assumption is the process that originally encoded them understood the characters.
For example, attempting to view non-Unicode Cyrillic text using a font that is limited to the Latin alphabet, or using the default "Western" encoding, بريښنا اميل سيکس results in text that consists almost entirely of vowels with diacritical marks e. When there are layers of protocols, each trying to specify the encoding based on different information, the least certain information may be misleading to the recipient. Likewise, many early operating systems do not support multiple encoding formats and thus will end up displaying mojibake if made to display non-standard text—early versions of Microsoft Windows and Palm OS for example, are localized on a per-country basis and will only support encoding standards relevant to the country the localized version will be sold in, and will display mojibake if a file containing a text in a different encoding format from the version that the OS is designed to support is opened.
In section 4. This is incorrect. It may be using Turkish while on your machine you're trying to translate into Italian, so the same characters wouldn't even appear properly - but at least they Bigass Nigerian appear improperly in a consistent manner.
WaxProlix on May 27, root parent next [—] Hey, never meant to imply otherwise. Serious question -- is this a serious project or a joke? Some computers did, in older eras, have vendor-specific encodings which caused mismatch also for English text.
UTF-8 also has the ability to be directly recognised by a simple algorithm, so that well written software should be able to avoid mixing UTF-8 up with other encodings. UCS2 is the original "wide character" encoding from when code points were defined as 16 bits. CUViper on May 27, root parent prev next [—] We don't even have 4 billion characters possible now. However, digraphs are useful in communication with other parts of the world, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره.
Special Character Codes for HTML
There's no good use case. Before Unicode, it was necessary to match text encoding with a font using the same encoding system, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره. Another type of mojibake occurs when text encoded in a single-byte encoding is erroneously parsed in a multi-byte encoding, such as one of the encodings for East Asian languages.
I'm not even sure why you would want to find something like the 80th code point in a string. Existing software assumed that every UCS-2 character was also a code point. UTF-8 was originally created inlong before Unicode 2. But if when you read a byte and it's anything other than an ASCII character it indicates that it is either a byte in the middle of a multi-byte stream or it is the 1st byte of a mult-byte string.
Yes, "fixed length" is misguided, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره. Even Elx jeans xx video, changing the operating system encoding settings is not possible شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره earlier operating systems such as Windows 98 ; to resolve this issue on earlier operating systems, a user would have to use third party font rendering applications.
I'm not really sure it's relevant to talk about UTF-8 prior to its inclusion in the Unicode standard, but even then, encoding the code point range DDFFF was not allowed, for the same reason it was actually not allowed in UCS-2, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره, which is that this code point range was unallocated it was in fact part of the Special Zone, which I am unable to find an actual definition for in the scanned dead-tree Unicode 1.
These are languages for which the ISO character set also known as Latin 1 or Western has been in use. The drive to differentiate Croatian from Serbian, Bosnian from Croatian and Serbian, and now even Montenegrin from the other three creates many problems. It might be more clear to say: "the resulting sequence will not represent the surrogate code points.
Veedrac on May 27, root parent prev next [—] Well, Python 3's unicode support is much more complete. But UTF-8 disallows this and only allows the canonical, 4-byte encoding. In some rare cases, an entire text string which happens to include a pattern of particular شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره lengths, such as the sentence " Bush hid the facts ", may be misinterpreted.
But UTF-8 has the ability to be directly recognised by a simple algorithm, so that well written software should be able to avoid mixing UTF-8 up with other encodings, so this was most common when many had software not supporting UTF In Swedish, Norwegian, Danish and German, vowels are rarely repeated, and it is usually obvious when one character gets corrupted, e.
All of these replacements introduce ambiguities, so reconstructing شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره original from such a form is usually done manually if required. Unfortunately it made everything else more complicated. So basically it goes wrong when someone assumes that any two of the above is "the same thing", شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره. An interesting possible application for this is JSON parsers. When you use an encoding based on integral bytes, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره, you can use the hardware-accelerated and often parallelized "memcpy" bulk byte moving hardware features to manipulate your strings.
Coding for variable-width takes more effort, but it gives you a better result. When a byte as you read the file in sequence 1 byte at a time from start to finish has a value of less than decimal then it IS an ASCII character. The problem gets more complicated when it occurs in an application that normally does not support a wide range of character encoding, Themindoftomm as in a non-Unicode computer game.
Dylan on May 27, root parent next [—]. But inserting a codepoint with your approach would require all downstream bits to be shifted within and across bytes, something that would be a much bigger computational burden. And that's how you find lone surrogates traveling through the stars without their mate and shit's all fucked up. In order to even attempt to come up with شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره direct conversion you'd almost have to know the language page code that is in use on the computer that created the file.
SimonSapin on May 27, parent next [—] This is intentional. The character set may be communicated to the client in any number of 3 ways:. Thanks for the correction! Regardless of encoding, it's never legal to emit a text stream that contains surrogate code points, as these points have been explicitly reserved for the use of UTF The UTF-8 and UTF encodings explicitly consider attempts to encode these code points as ill-formed, but there's no reason to ever allow it in the first place as it's a violation of the Unicode conformance rules to do so.
In the end, people use English loanwords "kompjuter" for "computer", "kompajlirati" for "compile," etc. WaxProlix on May 27, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره, root parent next [—] There's some disagreement[1] about the direction that Python3 went in terms of handling unicode. For example, Windows 98 and Windows Me can be set to most non-right-to-left single-byte code pages includingbut only at install time.
Is the desire for a fixed length encoding misguided because indexing into a string is way less common than it seems? In Windows XP or later, a user also has the option to use Microsoft AppLocalean application that allows the changing of per-application locale settings.
Modern browsers and word processors often support a wide array of character encodings.
Therefore, people who understand English, as well as those who Koriyan sex vidio accustomed to English terminology who are most, because English terminology is also mostly taught in schools because of these problems regularly choose the original English versions of non-specialist software.
These systems could be updated to UTF while preserving this assumption. Allowing them would just be a potential security hazard which is the same rationale for treating non-shortest-form UTF-8 شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره as ill-formed.
Sometimes that's code points, but more often it's probably characters or bytes. And because of this global confusion, everyone important ends up implementing something that somehow does something moronic - so then everyone else has yet another problem they didn't know existed and they all fall into a self-harming spiral of depravity.
Animats on May 28, parent next [—] So we're going to see this on web sites, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره. SimonSapin on May 28, root parent next [—] No. SimonSapin on May 27, prev next [—] I also gave a short talk at!!
That is the ultimate goal.
Mojibake - Wikipedia
Icelandic has ten possibly confounding characters, and Faroese has eight, making many words almost completely unintelligible when corrupted e. In the s, Bulgarian computers used their own MIK encodingwhich is superficially similar to although incompatible with CP Although Mojibake can occur with any of these characters, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره, the letters that are not included in Windows are much more prone to errors.
Therefore, these languages experienced fewer encoding incompatibility troubles than Russian. But since surrogate code points are real code points, you could imagine an alternative UTF-8 encoding for big code points: make a UTF surrogate pair, then UTF-8 encode the two code points of the surrogate pair hey, they are real code points!
WTF8 exists solely as an internal encoding in-memory representationbut it's very useful there. This is a bit of an odd parenthetical, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره. Polish companies selling early DOS computers created their own mutually-incompatible ways to encode Polish characters and simply reprogrammed the EPROMs of the video cards typically CGAEGAor Hercules to provide hardware code pages with the needed glyphs for Polish—arbitrarily located without reference to where other computer sellers had placed them.
The latter practice seems to be better tolerated in the German language sphere than in the Nordic countries. O 1 indexing of code points is not that useful because code points are not what people think of as "characters", شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره. Why this over, say, CESU-8? Newer versions of English Windows allow the code page to be changed older versions require special English versions with this supportbut this setting can be and often was incorrectly set. Most recently, the Unicode encoding includes code points for practically all the characters of all شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره world's شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره, including all Cyrillic characters.
The WTF-8 encoding simonsapin. I think there might be some value in a fixed length encoding but UTF seems a bit wasteful. Browsers often allow a user to change their rendering engine's encoding setting on the fly, while word processors allow the user to select the appropriate encoding when opening a file. There are many different localizations, using different standards and of different quality. An number like 0xd could have a code unit meaning as part of a UTF surrogate pair, and also be a totally unrelated Unicode code point.
It's often implicit.
Question Info
Let me see if I have this straight. That is, you can jump to the middle of a stream and find the next code point by looking at no more than 4 bytes. It's rare enough to not be a top priority. When Cyrillic script is used for Macedonian and partially Serbianشيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره, the problem is similar to other Cyrillic-based scripts. Pretty unrelated but I was thinking about efficiently encoding Unicode a week or two ago.
DasIch on May 27, root parent next [—] My complaint is not that I have to change my code. With Unicode requiring 21 But would it be worth the hassle for example as internal encoding in an operating system? It may take some trial and error for users to find the correct encoding. Since two letters are combined, the mojibake also seems more random over 50 variants compared to the normal three, not counting the rarer capitals.
UTF-8 became part of the Unicode standard with Unicode 2. The name might throw you off, but it's very much serious. The name is unserious but the project is very serious, its writer has responded to a few comments and linked to a presentation شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره his on the subject[0].
The solution they settled on is weird, but has some useful properties. DasIch on May 27, root parent next [—] There is no Sax sn view at all. However, ISO has been obsoleted by two competing standards, the backward compatible Windowsand the slightly altered ISO However, with the advent of UTF-8mojibake has become more common in certain scenarios, e. The writing systems of certain languages of the Caucasus region, including the scripts of Georgian and Armenianmay produce mojibake.
TazeTSchnitzel on May 27, prev next [—]. Because there is no process that can possibly have encoded those code شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره in the first place while conforming to the Big puffy nipple standard, there is no reason for any process to attempt to interpret those code points when consuming a Unicode encoding.
Using code page to view text in KOI8 or vice versa results in garbled text that consists mostly of capital letters KOI8 and codepage share the same ASCII region, but KOI8 has uppercase letters in the region where codepage has lowercase, and vice versa. TazeTSchnitzel on May 27, root parent next [—].
An obvious example would be treating UTF as a fixed-width encoding, which is bad because you might end up cutting grapheme clusters in half, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره, and you can easily forget about normalization if you think about it that way. Details required :.
For example, in Norwegian, digraphs are associated with archaic Danish, and may be used jokingly. It requires all the extra shifting, dealing with the potentially partially filled last 64 bits and encoding and decoding to and from the external world.
As such, these systems will potentially display mojibake when loading text generated on a system from a different country. Either that or get with who ever owns the system building the files and tell them that they are NOT sending out pure ASCII Jaken xxz separated files and شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره for their assistance in deciphering what you are seeing at your end. The additional characters are typically the ones that become corrupted, شيخ كبير ينيك Ùتاه صغيره, making texts only mildly unreadable with mojibake:.