In fact, even people who have issues with the py3 way often agree that it's still better than 2's, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾. I know you have a policy of not reply to people so maybe someone else could step in and clear up my confusion. NFG uses the negative numbers down to about -2 billion as a implementation-internal private use area to temporarily store graphemes. Guessing encodings when opening files is a problem precisely because - as you mentioned - the caller should specify the encoding, not just sometimes but always.
I created this scheme to help in using a formulaic method to generate a commonly used subset of the CJK characters, perhaps in the codepoints which would be 6 bytes under UTF It would be more difficult than the Hangul scheme because CJK characters are built recursively. There's some disagreement[1] about the direction that Python3 went in terms of handling unicode.
Back in the early nineties they thought otherwise and were proud ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ they ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ it in hindsight. I feel like I am learning of these dragons all the time. I used strings to mean both. There's not a ton of local IO, but I've upgraded all my personal projects to Python 3. The ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ does not provide a method to translate from another encoding to UTF-8 as the iconv function from base R already serves this purpose.
Codepoints and characters are not equivalent. We can see these characters below. If you use a bit scheme, you can dynamically assign multi-character extended grapheme clusters to unused code units to get a fixed-width encoding.
SimonSapin on May 28, root parent next [—]. They failed to achieve both goals. You can find a list of all of the characters in the Unicode Character Database. I have to disagree, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾, I think using Unicode in Python 3 is currently easier than in any language I've used.
What do you make of NFG, as mentioned in another comment below? Unicode just isn't simple any way you Mag pinsan iyotan it, so you might as well shove the complexity in everybody's face and have them confront it early. There Python 2 is only "better" in that issues will probably fly under the radar if you don't prod things too much.
My complaint is not that I have to change my code. On top of that implicit coercions have ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ replaced with implicit broken guessing of encodings for example when opening files, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾. Given the context of the byte:. So UTF is restricted to that range too, despite what Joget bolong bits would allow, never mind Publicly available private use schemes such as ConScript are fast filling up this space, mainly by encoding block characters in the same way Unicode encodes Korean Hangul, i.
NFG enables O N algorithms for character level operations. How is any of جوارګر پشتو Ùلم in conflict with my original points?
Question Info
So we're going to see this on web sites. It isn't a position based on ignorance. One of Python's greatest strengths is that they don't just pile on random features, and keeping old crufty features from previous versions would amount to the same thing.
DasIch on May 28, root parent next [—]. When you try to print Unicode in R, the system will first try to determine whether the code is printable or not, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾.
And as the linked article explains, UTF is a huge mess of complexity with back-dated validation rules that had to be added because it stopped being a wide-character encoding when the new code points were added.
I get that every different thing character is a different Unicode number code point. We've future proofed the architecture for Windows, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ there is no direct work on it that I'm aware of.
Stop there. The others are characters common in Latin languages. That is not quite true, in the sense that more of the standard library has been made unicode-aware, and implicit conversions between unicode and bytestrings have been removed. The Latin-1 encoding extends ASCII to Latin languages by assigning the numbers to hexadecimal 0x80 to 0xff to other common characters in Latin languages.
I'm using Python 3 in production for an internationalized website and my experience ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ been that it handles Unicode pretty well.
SimonSapin on May 27, root parent prev next [—]. My complaint is that Python 3 is an attempt at breaking as little compatibilty with Python 2 as possible while making Unicode "easy" to use. Why shouldn't you slice or index them? I think you are missing the difference between codepoints as distinct from codeunits and characters.
It's time for browsers to start saying no to really bad HTML. Wide character encodings in ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ are just hopelessly flawed. Oh, joy. The term "WTF-8" has been around for a long time. Now we have a Python 3 that's incompatible to Python 2 but provides almost no significant benefit, solves none of the large well Boy sp problems and introduces quite a few new problems.
Hey, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾, never meant to imply otherwise. DasIch on May 27, root parent next [—], ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾.
Repair utf-8 strings that contain iso encoded utf-8 characters В· GitHub
I will try to find out more about ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ problem, because I guess that as a developer this might have ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ impact on my work sooner or later and therefore I should at least be aware of it. If you need more than reading in a single text file, the readtext package supports reading in text in a variety of file formats and encodings.
It seems like those operations make sense in either case but I'm sure I'm missing something. SimonSapin on May 27, root parent next [—]. There is no coherent view at all. It certainly isn't perfect, but it's better than the alternatives. You could still open it as raw bytes if required. Good examples for that are paths and anything that relates to local IO when you're locale is C. Maybe this has been your experience, but it hasn't been mine.
Yes, that bug is the best place to start. Though such negative-numbered codepoints could only be used for private use in data interchange between 3rd parties if the UTF was used, because neither UTF-8 even pre nor UTF could encode them. Python 2 handling of paths is not good because there is no good abstraction over different operating systems, treating them as byte strings is Indo colmek keluar banyak sane lowest common denominator though.
SimonSapin on May 27, prev next [—]. Filesystem paths is the latter, it's text on OSX and Windows — although possibly ill-formed in Windows — but it's bag-o-bytes in most unices. Duty Fate? Back to our original problem: getting the text of Mansfield Park into R. Our first attempt failed:. We can test this by attempting to convert from Latin-1 to UTF-8 with the कीनू function and inspecting the output:. Completely trivial, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾, obviously, but it demonstrates that there's a canonical way to map every value in Ruby to nil.
On Mac OS, R uses an outdated function to make this determination, so it is unable to print most emoji. In current browsers they'll happily pass around lone surrogates. I love this. Python 3 pretends that paths can be represented as unicode strings on all OSes, that's not true. This is an internal implementation detail, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾, not to be used on the Web. Just define a somewhat sensible behavior for every ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾, no matter how ugly.
I'm not aware of anything in "Linux" that actually stores or operates on 4-byte character strings, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾.
WinNT actually predates the Unicode standard by a year or so. Fortunately it's not something I deal with often but thanks for the info, will stop me getting caught out later. Oh ok it's intentional. For code that does do some character level operations, avoiding quadratic behavior may pay off handsomely.
CUViper on May 27, root parent prev next [—], ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾. Note that 0xa3the invalid byte from À¦˜à§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ Parkcorresponds to a pound sign in the Latin-1 encoding. Guessing an encoding based Black girl guck the locale or the content of the file should be ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ exception and something the caller does explicitly.
Keeping a coherent, consistent model of your text is a pretty important part of curating a language. In all other aspects the situation has stayed as bad as it was in Python 2 or has gotten significantly worse, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾. The API in no way indicates that doing any of these things is a problem. Pretty good read if you have a few minutes. Most of these codes are currently unassigned, but every year the Unicode consortium meets and adds new characters.
This scheme can easily be fitted on top of UTF instead. On Windows, a bug in the current version of R fixed in R-devel prevents using ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ second method.
The characters at a glance
Most of the time however you certainly don't want to deal with codepoints. Base R format control codes below using octal escapes. Obviously some software somewhere must, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾, but the overwhelming majority of text processing on your linux box is done in UTF That's not remotely comparable to the situation in Windows, where file names are stored on disk ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ a 16 bit not-quite-wide-character encoding, etc And it's leaked into firmware.
Is it april 1st today?
I hadn't done that much pencil-and-paper bit manipulation since I was Awesome module! The caller should specify the encoding manually ideally. How much data do you have lying around that's UTF? Sure, more recently, Go and Rust have decided to go with UTF-8, but that's far from common, and it does have some drawbacks compared to the À¦˜à§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ NFG or Python3 latin-1, UCS-2, UCS-4 as appropriate model if you have to do actual processing ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ of just passing opaque strings around.
Start doing that for serious errors such as Javascript code aborts, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾, security errors, and malformed UTF Then extend that to pages where the character encoding is ambiguous, and stop trying to guess character encoding.
Say you want to input the Unicode character with hexadecimal code 0x You can Frienship so in one of three ways:.
That's just silly, so we've gone through this whole unicode everywhere process so we can stop thinking about the underlying implementation details but the api forces you to have to deal with them anyway, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾.
When a browser detects a major error, it should put an error bar ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ the top of the page, with something like "This page may display improperly due to errors in the page source click for details ", ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾.
What does the DOM do when it receives a surrogate half from Javascript? Python 3 doesn't handle Unicode any better than Python 2, it just made it the default string. Again: wide characters are a hugely flawed idea. Most people aren't aware of that at all and it's definitely surprising. Sure, go to 32 bits per character, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾. What's your storage requirement that's not adequately solved by the existing encoding schemes?
When you say "strings" are you referring to strings or bytes? Have you looked at Python 3 yet? To dismiss this reasoning is extremely shortsighted. UTF-8 encodes characters using between 1 and 4 bytes each and allows for up to 1, character codes.
Or is some of my above understanding incorrect, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾. With only unique values, a single byte is not German love island to encode every character.
We haven't determined whether we'll need to use WTF-8 throughout Servo—it may depend on how document. I also gave a short talk at!!
Perl6 calls this NFG [1]. There are some other differences between the function which we will highlight below. Multi-byte encodings allow for encoding more. Doesn't seem worth the overhead to my eyes. Animats on May 28, parent next [—]. Thx for explaining the choice of the name. Slicing or indexing into unicode strings is a problem because it's not clear what unicode strings are strings of.
You can also index, slice and iterate over strings, all operations that you really shouldn't do ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ you really now what you are doing. Your complaint, and the complaint of the OP, seems to be basically, "It's different and I have to change my code, therefore it's bad. That is held up with a very leaky abstraction and means that Python code that treats paths as unicode strings and not as paths-that-happen-to-be-unicode-but-really-arent is broken.
Nothing special happens to ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ v.
The iconvlist function will list the ones that R knows how to process:. We don't even have 4 billion characters possible now. Bytes still have methods like. Note, however, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾, that this is not the only possibility, and there are many other encodings.
And unfortunately, I'm not anymore enlightened as to ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ misunderstanding. Enables fast grapheme-based manipulation of strings in Perl 6.
Character encoding
Non-printable codes include control codes and unassigned codes. That means if you slice or index into a unicode strings, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾, you might get an "invalid" unicode string back. If you don't know the encoding of the file, how can you decode it?
I almost like that utf and more so utf-8 break the "1 character, 1 glyph" rule, because it gets you in the mindset that this is bogus. On the guessing encodings when opening files, that's not really a problem. DasIch on May 27, root parent prev next [—]. The utf8 package provides the following utilities for validating, formatting, and printing À¦˜à§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ characters:.
A listing of the Emoji characters is available separately. You can't use that for storage. I wonder what will be next? A character can consist of one or more codepoints. This is essentially the Mombasa fucking feature of nil, in a sense. UTF, when implemented correctly, is actually significantly more complicated to get right than UTF I don't know anything that uses it in practice, though surely something does.
That's OK, there's a spec, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾. The overhead is entirely wasted on code that does no character level operations. WaxProlix on May 27, root parent next [—]. The primary motivator ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ this was Servo's DOM, although it ended up getting deployed first in Rust to deal with Windows paths.
You can look at unicode strings from different perspectives and see a sequence of codepoints or a sequence of characters, both can be reasonable depending on what you want to do. Calling a sports association "WTF"?
Not that great of a read. I wonder if anyone else had ever managed to reverse-engineer that tweet before. With typing the interest here would be more clear, of course, since it would be more apparent that nil inhabits every type.
I've taken the liberty in this scheme of making 16 planes 0x10 to 0x1F available as private use; the rest are unassigned, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾. Many people who prefer Python3's way of handling Unicode are aware of these arguments. It slices by codepoints? Byte strings can be sliced and indexed no problems because a byte as such is something you may actually want to deal with, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾. Python however only gives you a codepoint-level perspective, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾.
Because in Unicode it is most decidedly bogus, even if you switch to UCS-4 in a vain attempt to avoid such problems. The HTML5 spec formally defines consistent handling for many errors. Don't try to outguess new kinds of errors. More importantly some codepoints merely modify others and cannot stand on their own.
Also note that you ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ to go through a normalization step anyway if you don't want to be tripped up by having multiple ways to represent a single grapheme.
In-memory string ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ rarely corresponds ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾ on-disk representation, ঘà§à¦®à§‡à¦° মধো চà§à¦¦à¦¾. Not only because of the name itself but also by explaining the reason behind the choice, you achieved to get my attention.
You really want to call this WTF 8? All that software is, broadly, incompatible and buggy and of questionable security when faced with new code points. This is intentional. The mistake is older than that. But nowadays UTF-8 is usually the better choice except for maybe some asian and exotic later added languages that may require more space with UTF-8 - I am not saying UTF would be a better choice then, there are certain other encodings for special cases.
So if you're working in either domain you get a coherent view, the problem being when you're interacting with systems or concepts which straddle the divide or even worse may be in either domain depending on the platform. I certainly have spent very little time struggling with it.