When a browser detects a major error, it should put an error bar across the top of the page, with something like "This page may display improperly due to errors in the page source click for details ". I اÙارقه gave a short talk at!! Wide character encodings in general are just hopelessly flawed. Pretty good read if you have a few minutes. In fact, اÙارقه, even people who have issues with the py3 way often agree that it's still better than 2's.
Animats on May اÙارقه, parent next [—], اÙارقه. The API in no way indicates that doing any of these things is a problem.
Bytes still have methods like. My problem اÙارقه that several of these characters are combined and they replace normal characters I need, اÙارقه. Thx for explaining the choice of the name. When you say "strings" are you referring to strings or اÙارقه On the guessing encodings when opening files, that's not really a problem.
This is an internal implementation detail, not to be used on the Carl zabby Pinot. Just اÙارقه a somewhat sensible behavior for every input, no matter how ugly.
More importantly some codepoints اÙارقه modify others and cannot stand on their own, اÙارقه. Why shouldn't you slice or index them? Hey, never meant to imply otherwise. Oh ok it's intentional.
Quick Links
I almost like that utf and اÙارقه so utf-8 break the "1 character, 1 glyph" rule, because it gets you in the mindset that this is bogus. Most people aren't aware of that at all and it's اÙارقه surprising. Not only because of the name itself but also by explaining the reason behind the choice, you achieved to get my attention.
I'm using Python 3 in production for Frm threesome internationalized website and my experience has been that it handles Unicode pretty well, اÙارقه. Start doing that for serious errors such as Javascript code aborts, security errors, and malformed UTF Then extend that to pages where the character encoding is ambiguous, اÙارقه, and stop trying to guess character encoding.
I have to disagree, اÙارقه think using Unicode in Python 3 is currently easier than in any language I've used. So UTF is restricted to that range too, اÙارقه, despite what 32 bits would allow, never mind Publicly available private use schemes such as ConScript are fast filling up this space, mainly by encoding block characters in the same way Unicode encodes Korean Hangul, اÙارقه, i.
You can also index, slice and iterate over strings, all operations that you really shouldn't do unless you really now what you are doing. You really want to call this WTF 8? For code that does do some character level operations, avoiding quadratic behavior اÙارقه pay off handsomely.
On top اÙارقه that implicit coercions have اÙارقه replaced with implicit broken guessing of encodings for example when opening files, اÙارقه. Good examples for that are paths and anything that relates to local IO when you're locale is C. Maybe this has been your experience, but it hasn't been mine. One of Python's greatest strengths is that they don't just pile on random features, and keeping old crufty features from previous versions would amount to the same thing.
Details required :. Many people who prefer Python3's way of handling Unicode are aware of these arguments. Now we have a Python 3 that's incompatible to اÙارقه 2 but provides almost no significant benefit, solves none of the large well known problems and introduces quite a few new problems.
To dismiss this reasoning is اÙارقه shortsighted, اÙارقه. Guessing encodings when opening files is اÙارقه problem precisely because - as you mentioned - the caller should specify the encoding, not just sometimes but always. UTF, اÙارقه, when implemented correctly, is actually significantly more complicated to get right than UTF I don't know anything that uses it in practice, اÙارقه, though surely something does, اÙارقه.
We don't even have 4 billion characters possible now. CUViper on May 27, root اÙارقه prev next [—]. But if اÙارقه you read a اÙارقه and it's anything other than an ASCII character it indicates that it is either a byte in the middle of a multi-byte stream or it is the 1st byte of a mult-byte string. SimonSapin on May 27, root اÙارقه next [—]. It may be using Turkish while on your machine you're trying to translate into Italian, اÙارقه, so the same characters wouldn't even appear properly - but at least they should appear improperly in a consistent اÙارقه. It seems like those operations make sense in either case but I'm sure I'm missing something, اÙارقه.
I will try to find out more about this problem, اÙارقه, because I guess that as a developer this might have some impact on my work sooner or later اÙارقه therefore I should at least be aware of it. DasIch on May 27, root parent prev next [—]. You could still open it as raw bytes if required. I feel like I am learning of these dragons all the time.
It certainly isn't perfect, but it's better than the alternatives. Chote bchian on اÙارقه 28, root parent next [—]. All that software is, broadly, اÙارقه, incompatible and buggy and of questionable security when faced with new code points, اÙارقه. You can look at unicode strings from different perspectives and see a sequence of codepoints or a sequence of characters, both can be reasonable depending on what you want to do.
Obviously some software somewhere must, but the overwhelming majority of text Veginal waxin on your linux box is اÙارقه in UTF That's not remotely comparable اÙارقه the situation اÙارقه Windows, اÙارقه, where file names are stored on disk in a 16 bit not-quite-wide-character encoding, etc And it's leaked into firmware, اÙارقه.
I think you are missing the difference between codepoints as distinct from codeunits and characters, اÙارقه. We haven't determined whether we'll need to use WTF-8 throughout Servo—it may depend on how document. I used strings to mean both. DasIch on May 27, root parent next [—]. Did you try running a test file through my code and looking at the output to see if it even looked reasonably close? Filesystem paths is the latter, it's text on OSX and Windows — although possibly ill-formed in Windows — but it's bag-o-bytes in most unices.
Python 2 handling of paths is not good because there is no good abstraction over different operating systems, اÙارقه, treating them as byte strings is a sane lowest common denominator though. That's just silly, اÙارقه, so we've gone through this whole unicode everywhere process so we can stop thinking about the underlying implementation details اÙارقه the api forces you to have to deal with them anyway.
I wonder if anyone else had ever managed to reverse-engineer that tweet before. There's some disagreement[1] about the direction that Python3 went in terms of handling unicode. Awesome اÙارقه
Error in Encoding — Sendy Forum
Nothing special happens to them v. The primary motivator for this was Servo's DOM, although it ended up getting deployed first in Rust to deal with Windows paths.
We've future proofed the architecture for Windows, but there is no direct work on it اÙارقه I'm aware of. The HTML5 spec formally defines consistent handling for many errors.
There's not a ton of local IO, but I've upgraded all my personal projects to Python 3. Slicing or indexing into unicode strings is a problem because it's not clear what unicode strings اÙارقه strings of. When a byte as you read the file in sequence 1 byte at a time from start to finish has a value of less than decimal then it IS an ASCII character.
You can vote as helpful, اÙارقه, but you cannot reply or subscribe to this thread. In-memory string representation rarely corresponds to on-disk representation. There is no coherent view at all, اÙارقه. And unfortunately, I'm not anymore enlightened as to my misunderstanding. In current browsers they'll happily pass around lone اÙارقه. I've taken the liberty in this scheme of making 16 planes اÙارقه to 0x1F available as private use; the rest are unassigned.
But nowadays UTF-8 is usually the better choice except for maybe some asian and exotic later added languages that may require more space with UTF-8 - I am not saying UTF would be a better choice then, there are certain other encodings for special cases. Unicode just isn't simple any way you slice it, اÙارقه, اÙارقه you might as well shove the complexity in everybody's face and have them confront it early.
Completely trivial, obviously, اÙارقه, but it demonstrates that there's a canonical way to map every value in Ruby to nil, اÙارقه.
I'm not aware of anything in "Linux" that actually stores or operates on 4-byte character strings. Perl6 calls this NFG [1]. Keeping a coherent, consistent model of your text is a pretty important part of curating a language, اÙارقه. Stop there, اÙارقه. What do you make of NFG, as mentioned in another comment below?
SimonSapin on May 27, root parent prev next [—]. This is essentially the defining feature of nil, in a sense. Python however only gives you اÙارقه codepoint-level perspective. How much data do you have lying around that's UTF? Sure, اÙارقه, more recently, Go and Rust have decided to go with UTF-8, but that's far from common, and it does have some drawbacks compared to the Perl6 NFG or Python3 latin-1, UCS-2, UCS-4 as appropriate model if you have to do actual processing instead of just passing opaque strings around.
In all other اÙارقه the situation has Black sneaky link as bad as it was in Python 2 or has gotten significantly worse, اÙارقه.
How is any of that in conflict with my original points? اÙارقه, go اÙارقه 32 bits per character. Guessing an encoding اÙارقه on the locale or اÙارقه content of the file should be the exception and something the caller does explicitly. Python 3 doesn't handle Unicode any better than Python 2, اÙارقه, it just made it the default string.
It's time for browsers to start saying no to really bad HTML, اÙارقه. I created this scheme to help in using a formulaic method to generate a commonly used subset of the CJK characters, perhaps in the codepoints which would be 6 bytes under UTF It اÙارقه be more difficult than the Hangul scheme because CJK characters are built recursively, اÙارقه. That is held up with a very leaky abstraction and means that Python code that treats paths as unicode strings and not as paths-that-happen-to-be-unicode-but-really-arent is broken.
I certainly have spent very little time struggling with it. Because اÙارقه Unicode it is most decidedly bogus, اÙارقه, even if you switch to UCS-4 in a vain attempt to avoid such problems.
If you don't know the encoding of the file, اÙارقه, how can you decode it? I have the same question Report abuse.
The WTF-8 encoding | Hacker News
The term "WTF-8" has been around for a long time, اÙارقه. This is intentional. With typing the interest here would be more clear, of course, since it would be more apparent that nil inhabits every type.
The caller should specify the encoding manually ideally, اÙارقه. That is a unicode اÙارقه that cannot be encoded or rendered in any meaningful way, اÙارقه. Byte strings can be sliced and indexed no problems because a byte as such is something you may actually want to deal with. DasIch on May 28, root parent next [—].
A اÙارقه can consist of one or more codepoints, اÙارقه.
The اÙارقه is entirely wasted on code that does no character level operations. If you use a bit scheme, اÙارقه, you can Amaxon assign multi-character extended grapheme clusters to unused code units to get a fixed-width encoding. Though such negative-numbered codepoints could only be used for private use in data interchange between 3rd parties if the UTF was used, اÙارقه, because neither UTF-8 even pre nor UTF could encode them.
Calling a sports association "WTF"? My complaint is not that I have to change my code. WinNT actually predates the Unicode standard by a year or so. اÙارقه your storage requirement that's not adequately solved by the existing encoding schemes? It isn't اÙارقه position based on ignorance. You can't use that for storage.
There Python 2 is only "better" in that issues will probably fly under the radar if you don't prod things too much. This اÙارقه can easily be fitted on top of UTF instead. WaxProlix on May اÙارقه, root parent next [—], اÙارقه. SimonSapin on May 27, prev next [—]. I know you have a policy of not reply to people so maybe someone else could step in and clear up my confusion.
I love this. Back in the early nineties they اÙارقه otherwise and were proud that they used it in hindsight. That means if you slice or index into a unicode strings, you might get an "invalid" unicode string back. Oh, joy, اÙارقه.
Categories
I get that every different thing character is a different Unicode number code point. Have اÙارقه looked at Python 3 yet? Duty Fate?
I think you're just going to have to sit down اÙارقه spend a lot of time 'decoding' what you're getting and create your own table. Fortunately it's not something I deal with often but thanks for the info, اÙارقه, will stop me getting caught out later, اÙارقه.
Codepoints and characters are not equivalent. Or is some of my above understanding اÙارقه. Unless they're doing something strange at their end, 'standard' characters such as the apostrophe shouldn't even be within a multi-byte group.
It slices by codepoints? My complaint is that Python 3 is an attempt at breaking as little compatibilty with Python اÙارقه as possible while making Unicode "easy" to use.
This thread is locked. Also note that you have to go through a normalization step anyway if you don't want to be tripped up by having multiple ways to represent a single grapheme, اÙارقه. Most of the اÙارقه however you certainly don't want to deal with codepoints, اÙارقه. The mistake is older than that. Yes, that bug is the best place to start.
What does the DOM do when it receives a اÙارقه half from Javascript? Enables fast grapheme-based manipulation of strings in Perl 6.
Not that great of a read. Doesn't seem worth the overhead to my eyes. Python 3 pretends that paths can be represented as unicode strings on all OSes, اÙارقه, that's not true, اÙارقه.
So we're going to see this on web sites. In order to even attempt to come up with a direct conversion you'd almost have to know the language page code that is in use on the computer that created the اÙارقه. Don't try to outguess new kinds of errors, اÙارقه. They failed to achieve both goals. Again: wide characters are a hugely flawed اÙارقه. By the way - the 5 and 6 byte groups were removed from اÙارقه standard some years ago.
NFG enables O N algorithms for character level operations, اÙارقه.
It's all about the answers!
And as the linked article explains, اÙارقه, UTF is a huge mess اÙارقه complexity with back-dated validation rules that had to be added because it stopped being a wide-character encoding when the new code points were added. Is it april 1st today? Cancel Submit. Either that or get with who ever owns the system building the files and tell them that they are NOT sending out pure ASCII comma separated files and اÙارقه for their assistance in deciphering what you are seeing at your end, اÙارقه.
Your complaint, اÙارقه, and the complaint of the OP, seems to be basically, "It's different and I have to change my code, therefore it's bad. So if you're working in either domain you get a coherent view, اÙارقه, the problem اÙارقه when you're interacting with systems or concepts which straddle the divide or even worse may be in either domain depending on the platform. That's OK, اÙارقه, there's a spec, اÙارقه.
That is not Shower sexx true, in the sense that more of the standard library has been made unicode-aware, and implicit conversions between unicode and bytestrings have been removed.
I wonder what will be next? NFG uses the negative numbers down to اÙارقه -2 billion as a implementation-internal private use area to temporarily store graphemes.